Episode 92 - New User Special

[Fab]

In this special episode, Dan and Fab give an introduction to Linux for new users. We tell you how to burn and install your first distribution, we try to explain some often used terms as well as some philosophical and political issues and we cover the basic concepts behind the OS.

http://linuxoutlaws.com/podcast/92
http://linuxoutlaws.com/podcast/ogg/92

http://outlawarchives.com

[Rod C. Johnson]

First Baby Yeah

[mikankun]

Regarding the name issue. The main reason Stallman has an issue with people referring to it as simply Linux is that it creates a disconnect from the ideas of the GNU project. There are an overwhelmingly large number of users who have know idea what GNU or the FSF is which I personally think is troubling. New users start to think that Torvalds is the main engineer of the whole thing and in turn start to turn to his views on everything GNU/Linux related which are quite from those of the GNU project and the FSF.

Also on the topic of the use of "libre". It refers to only to free as in freedom unlike in English.

[Davey_Speedstar]

For the resources, one of the first I found (even before Linux outlaws) was Category5 Technology TV, which is broadcast from Canada every Tuesday night/Wednesday morning (currently at midnight Wednesday am bst) by Robbie Ferguson.

This is very much aimed at the computing beginner, and in terms of content, is very much viewer led. Because most of the viewers are Ubuntu users, 90% of the content is Ubuntu based.

What is really good is that questions are taken live from the chat-room (irc chatroom #category5), and Robbie demonstrates a fix live on air.

BTW for those who missed my intro in the newbies thread, I've been using Linux for almost a year. My first distro was Ubuntu, and I'm really happy with it. I keep looking at other distros, but for sheer usability, community support, and the fact that (for me) it just works, getting Ubuntu has been the best decision I have ever made.

The only downside about my conversion to Linux is that it was suggested to me last year that I I could make a good living setting myself up as tech support. However, now I have no interest in Windows, and no inclination to learn anything about it, as a result the best advise for a computer fix I give friends for their computer woes is 'Have you tried Linux?'

<edit> Robbie's even written a script to get around the flash & codecs issues with Ubuntu http://www.category5.tv/content/view/164/77/

[rocket-dog]

Regarding the name issue. The main reason Stallman has an issue with people referring to it as simply Linux is that it creates a disconnect from the ideas of the GNU project. There are an overwhelmingly large number of users who have know idea what GNU or the FSF is which I personally think is troubling. New users start to think that Torvalds is the main engineer of the whole thing and in turn start to turn to his views on everything GNU/Linux related which are quite from those of the GNU project and the FSF.

Also on the topic of the use of "libre". It refers to only to free as in freedom unlike in English.

What we need is some sort of creation myth. All the best religions have one.......

You are right though in what you say. I think it would be simpler just to group everything into a group called Unix like. This in my addled mind includes everything from classic Unix, via Linux, via BSD (including OS X), Solaris, and oddities like AIX that look like Unix but aren't.

[Fab]

Also on the topic of the use of "libre". It refers to only to free as in freedom unlike in English.

Free Libre still means "free free". Plus it's bloody confusing to introduce yet another language. As if it wasn't confusing enough already. Let's call it "FSF-certified Free Libre Freie Using The Linux Kernel And GNU Tools While Not Being Unix Did I Mention It Was Free Software".

[mg6]

Also on the topic of the use of "libre". It refers to only to free as in freedom unlike in English.

In English, "free" means "without encumbrance". When people talk about it with respect to price, "free" is just short for "free of charge". Inventing new words or importing them from another language isn't going to get the concept across. People need to understand the concept before they need a label for it. Even if you were successful in getting the new phrase in common use, people selling proprietary software would just call their software "libre" as well.

If you want a good example of this, look at what has happened in industrial automation technology. For years customers kept saying they wanted to see more open standards. Now every proprietary vendor calls their product "open". Usually, the more times they say the word "open", the more proprietary they are. They'll be happen to sell you the OpenController from the OpenAlliance which implements "open standards" in an "open" way. And it will be patented, trademarked, and IP'd to the hilt. And they will have a team of lawyers ready to leap on you if you get the ridiculous notion that their product was meant to be "open" (all out of a sincere desire to protect the consumer of course).

If you want to call it something, call it "Free Software" (in capitals).

[mikankun]

I'm well aware of what free means in English but the point is when most people hear or see the term "free software" their minds focus on free as in cost. I personally just take the time to explain it. People started using the "libre" simply because theres no way to confuse it with free of charge which is a different word. The example with using "open" standards to describe a product as open isn't any thing new and exist today (MS Office).

As for what Fab wrote I've never seen it referred to as "Free Libre" software. I've only seen one or the other. Regardless of the name I just think it's important that they get the message which is why I only have a problem with the terms "open source" and referring to everything as just "Linux".

I just think there are three main splits in the community as a whole:

1. Those who don't anything about and assume Linus was the brainchild behind it and look to his point of view as the correct one.
2. Those who know but don't care and continue to use and/or promote proprietary software or those that do care but still recommend others use proprietary software (I.E. UbuntuOne and Skype)
3. Those who know and care about their free and actively promote free software.

The naming issue leads to a large majority in group 1 which even if they are informed about the purpose of the FSF and the GNU project a lot of them will most likely just end up in group 2. Arguing over names seems silly but if it didn't have a negative impact nobody would care.

[Fab]

As for what Fab wrote I've never seen it referred to as "Free Libre" software. I've only seen one or the other.

Do you have any idea what FLOSS stands for?

[mikankun]

As for what Fab wrote I've never seen it referred to as "Free Libre" software. I've only seen one or the other.

Do you have any idea what FLOSS stands for?

The "free" and "libre" are not together in FLOSS so it still doesn't refer to free software as "free libre" software.